David Myatt Interview 2023 — Counter-Extremism, O9A, Combat 18 | kianlayer0

Subject: David Myatt (Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt al-Qari)

Part 1

Kian Tveitan

I know you supported the Taliban, and I wish to ask where did you go? Who did you meet? How long where you there? If vague answers must be made for security reasons I understand.

David Myatt

Yes I did support the Taliban during my Muslim years, with one of my writings in support of them – The Significance of the Taliban for the Muslim Ummah – apparently found by the CIA in the possession of Osama bin Laden following his killing by US Navy Seals in the Abbottabad compound in 2011.

My travels in Muslim lands following my reversion in 1998 were briefly mentioned by Mark Weitzmann in a 2010 NATO publication with one such travel summarized in my somewhat heretical text Reflections on Islamic Travels dated 2 Jumaada Al-Thaani 1424. Other than this I have as you anticipated no further comment to make.

Kian Tveitan

It would not surprise me if you have had to quieten yourself by pressure from MI6, or use foreign intelligence agency’s in the past.

David Myatt

My only overt contact with such agencies was following my arrest by Special Branch (SO12 as it then was, now part of SO15) in 1998 during one of several amiable meetings and conversations with an SO12 officer at which meeting another somewhat enigmatic person was present who I assumed was either MI5 or MI6. My assumption is and was that such agencies had me – have me? – under covert surveillance from at least 1997 during my involvement with Combat 18.

Kian Tveitan

I wish to know your perspective of the current Taliban, as for the most part they consist of many original Taliban members.

David Myatt

My now “above Time” perspective is mostly the one I wrote about in that aforementioned writing but modified with the riders ‘may be’ and ‘on balance’: that, for Muslims, they may represent, on balance, the spiritual principle of Zuhd in dunya (zuhd ad-dunya) which principle of detachment from or a concern with material things is it seems alien to some in the modern materialistic West although kept alive by others in various spiritual forms and perhaps even in those who espouse certain environmental concerns about what the modern West has done and is doing in respect of Nature.

In regard to spiritual forms I am reminded, in respect of Christianity, of Julian of Norwich, George Fox, and William Penn. With “on balance” for

(i) it seems that sometimes – but not always – there may be or may have been an excess of zeal by some and

(ii) there is the question of Ijma regarding their interpretation of Quran and Sunnah, which consensus, according to my understanding, they did not and currently do not have possibly because they did not have time to develop and most certainly now, post-occupation, cannot yet develop an Emirate.

Kian Tveitan

I know this is not confirmed: that you have “renounced Islam and all forms of Extremism”.

David Myatt

What is or would be acceptable as confirmation? For myself, I can only suggest a reading of my post-2012 writings, such as Understanding And Rejecting Extremism, and what I endeavoured to express in my three 2022 interviews.

Part 2

1998 surveillance photograph of David Myatt in Chelmsford walking beside the wife of Combat 18 (C18) member Martin Cross. Behind David Myatt is C18 member Frenchie and beside Frenchie is Combat 18 co-founder Steve Sargent. Steve Sargent along with his brother Charlie Sargent and C18 member Martin Cross where on trial for murder at Chelmsford Crown Court.

Kian Tveitan

Regarding Combat 18. When you left, especially becoming more deeply involved in Islam, where there ever any reprisals towards you?

David Myatt

No. Possibly because of two things. I kept certain channels of communication open particularly concerning Reichsfolk, and, in anticipation of a forthcoming criminal trial following my arrest in 1998 by SO12, I was preparing a defence since their criminal investigation was ongoing only ending in the Summer of 2001 when I released from my bail after it was found that there was “insufficient evidence” to bring me to trial.

This preparation included having some of my National-Socialist writings re-issued, one of which was the essay Why National-Socialism is Not Racist, and another The Theology Of National-Socialism: An Examination of National-Socialism, Christianity and Islam, in which I had written, Selected National Socialist Writings Of David Myatt.

“Honour demands that we treat people, regardless of their race, their culture, their religion, their ‘political views’ with fairness and respect.

That is, honour demands that we have manners and are polite: that we strive to act with nobility of character; that we judge people by their deeds and in particular by how they act toward us […]

It really is about time that we who uphold the noble way of life which is National-Socialism lived according to our own ethics and began to explain, openly and in clear words, the noble reality of National-Socialism.

No matter how dire our situation may be, or appears to be, and no matter how many non-Aryans may live in what were once our own nations, we must hold fast to our own ethics and not allow ourselves be tricked into accepting the Zionist version of ‘National Socialism’ with its hate-filled, irrational, Hollywood ‘Nazis’.”

It was during this time that I wrote The Question of National-Socialism, Racism and Tolerance which led me later that year (2001) to conceive a practical plan to try and bring National-Socialists and Muslims together in order to combat, in various ways, what I considered were our mutual enemies.

In furtherance of which I wrote tracts such as the multipart The National-Socialist Guide to Understanding Islam, in which I broached the subject of ‘martyrdom operations’ by Muslims, the last edition of which ‘guide’ was published in 1424 AH.

Kian Tveitan

It seems that you and the O9A have been targeted as the “connection” between all these Neo-Nazi terrorist groups. It seems they have decided to choose you along with the O9A as the main driving force of these organisations.

Allowing governments to use the O9A like they are trying to do in Australia, to by proxy drag in tens of Neo-Nazi and far-right groups into being designated as terrorist organisations. Do you feel this is the case?

David Myatt

This is an interesting question which I believe deserves a detailed reply especially as it links to one of the themes you are researching.

My personal perception is that ‘the Establishment’, of which anti-fascist groups such as ‘Hope Not Hate’ are now part of, have for several years been concerned about how the perception of National-Socialism is changing among sections of the Caucasian peoples of Europe and elsewhere.

Changing away from the Establishment orthodoxy maintained since 1945 through an unprecedented propaganda campaign toward a historical revisionist understanding.

That is, toward what is in practice now a heresy.

This concerns them as heresy always seems to concern religious and ideological cliqués when they acquire power and influence with their response always seeming to be repression and, latterly, since the Middle Ages, censorship which in our modern societies involves a ‘cancel culture’ and introducing laws based on some manufactured abstraction such as “holocaust denial” which criminalizes the public expression of opinions about a particular matter which the Establishment does not approve of, just as zealotical Protestants in England centuries ago criminalized the public expression of Catholic views and the performance of the Catholic Mass, and just as zealotical ‘revolutionaries’ in 18th century France condemned and guillotined Catholic priests and nuns for being “anti-revolutionary” one of which acts was memorialised over a hundred and sixty years later by composer Francis Poulenc in his Dialogues des Carmélites.

A quite minor part of this new understanding, this new heresy, may have been what one antifascist described over two decades ago as my ‘revisionist’ version of National-Socialism with its emphasis on honour and what that implied in real life for modern National-Socialists. Hence my 1997 essay The Disease of Suspicion in which I wrote: Quoted in Rachael Stirling’s 2021 monograph, The Peregrinations Of David Myatt: National Socialist Ideologist and Selected National Socialist Writings Of David Myatt.

“There is a blight spreading on our noble Cause, a blight spread by our enemies. This blight, this spreading infection, is Suspicion.

This most usual and visible form which this infectious blight takes is: ‘He/she is an agent/informer for the Police/the Government…’ Sometimes, however, Suspicion is simply a rumour about a person’s past or their personal character.

Our enemies have deliberately bred this infection of Suspicion to weaken us, to divide us among ourselves. They have found it be a powerful weapon in their fight against us, for many who are supposed to on our side in the war of freedom we are fighting have become infected with Suspicion, and go around infecting others with this blight, this poison.

There is now almost a state of paranoia on our side, with people spreading rumours and allegations, and wondering whether a certain Comrade is really a government agent or an informer.

We must understand this – Suspicion is behaviour unbecoming a warrior. What is unbecoming for a warrior is what is dishonourable and unfair. It is dishonourable conduct and thus contemptible. It is a betrayal of everything we stand for and believe in, as warriors.

It is a betrayal of our noble ideal of loyalty, of comradeship. To spread Suspicion, to believe in rumours and allegations about individuals – however well-supported or ‘documented’ such rumours and allegations seem – is undignified, the sign of a weak character.

It is a betrayal of our noble standards of personal conduct – a descent down toward the level of the uncivilized people we despise and are fighting. Suspicion is un-warrior like because a true warrior only and ever makes a personal judgement about any individual after having personally met that individual on a number of occasions because this is the honourable, the fair, thing to do.

They have thus spent some time with that person and so therefore can make their own personal and direct assessment of the character of that individual.

The warrior thing to do – not having met an individual and not having spent time with that individual – is to reserve one’s judgement, and make no personal comment at all about the individual’s character, motives or anything else.

Furthermore, any person who says or writes anything which calls into question the honour of any individual, must be prepared to face that individual and repeat the allegations, rumours or suspicion directly to that individual, and be prepared to fight that individual in a fair fight or a duel if the individual whose honour is brought into question desires to so defend his honour.

This is the warrior thing to do, this is the honourable thing to do. Thus, anyone who raises doubts about a person, who spreads any rumour about them, or who is suspicious about the motives or the character of a person, must repeat any and all allegations to that person, face-to-face, and give that person a chance to defend themselves.

Anything less is un-warrior like and cowardly. To destroy this infection of Suspicion, this blight upon our Cause which is harming us and our fight for freedom, we have to do the honourable thing.

The honourable thing to do is to maintain a dignified silence.”

This was at the time when former Combat 18 member Wilf Browning and his supporters were spreading rumours about Charlie Sargent, the founder of Combat 18. I had given Charlie and his brother Steve a personal pledge of loyalty, on my honour, so I naturally supported him.

The crises led to Charlie’s close friend Martin Cross killing a Browning supporter with both Martin and Charlie arrested for murder. Browning then co-operated with the Police and testified against them at their criminal trial, leading me to publicly challenge him to a duel with deadly weapons.

He dishonourably ignored the challenge and made jokes about it. Browning would later be lauded in book written by an anti-fascist and described as “a fearless fighter”, as “revered in Europe” and as “loyal” when the exact opposite was true.

Such widely-read writings of mine, expounded in various essays and then in later editions of my The National-Socialist newsletter published in support of the National-Socialist Movement, quite naturally annoyed certain anti-fascists far more than I had annoyed them in the past by my 1970s street activism and by having my Vindex – Destiny of the West published in America in 1984 which was widely distributed around the world.

An annoyance which seemed to me to have become a hatred because of my profuse 1990s writings concerning honour which rationally countered the Establishment version of ‘nazism’ which they had spent decades assiduously propagating; and because of my support of Combat 18 and of Charlie against Browning.

One anti-fascist in particular appeared to have a particular hatred of me resulting in a concerted campaign to publicly discredit me; someone now part of the Establishment having been awarded an MBE in 2016 by the then British government and appointed by them to be part of their Commission for Countering Extremism. Perhaps unsurprisingly this person was the author of the book that praised Browning.

This concerted smear campaign began with a special edition of the anti-fascist Searchlight magazine in 1998 headlined The Most Evil Nazi In Britain and included what one essayist termed The Infamous Post Box Interview. As I wrote in A Reply To Allegations, A Reply to Allegations is included in the Selected National Socialist Writings Of David Myatt.

“For over twenty years, journalists, those opposed to National-Socialism, and dishonourable, egotistical weak-willed rumour-mongers among the so-called racial-nationalist ‘Movement’, have been circulating rumours and making allegations about my personal involvement with Occultism and Satanism.

This is despite the fact that I have denied and do deny ever having been a ‘Satanist’, and despite the fact that I have stated many times that I regard Satanism as decadent and morally wrong.

These rumours and allegations were started by, and are still circulated by, my enemies for one simple reason – to try and discredit me personally. For, if I can be discredited in such a way, people will not take seriously what I have written about National-Socialism and what I have done for this most noble of Causes. When I write or say that National-Socialism and the Occult are incompatible, I mean it. When I condemn Satanism as un-Aryan, as morally wrong, I mean it.”

Kian Tveitan

I am going into Combat 18 because this involvement during that period created the mythology of you. Inadvertently this mythologic view of you has been more influential than anything you have written. I see Combat 18 and the mess of the late 90s after the nail bombings as been the focal point that turned you from the person into the Idea. Does it feel that this Idea of you of which you have no control over is something you are trying to regain control?

David Myatt

The concepts of me as ‘myth’ and Idea are new to me and not something I agree with or am comfortable with. In 2021, when asked if I agreed with what one academic wrote, which was that I was “driven by a search for meaning and purpose, as well as an intellectual desire to find and create the all-encompassing and perfect political philosophy”, I said I did not agree because Three Interviews, David Myatt. and Myngath by David Myatt.

“during my National-Socialist decades I was driven by a somewhat fanatical desire to not only propagate what I then believed National-Socialism to be – an honourable, noble, way of life, a practical presencing of the numinous – but also to recruit people to that cause in the hope of creating a National-Socialist society in the land of my ancestors […]

During my years as a Muslim I nurtured a similar desire to propagate what I then believed the Muslim way of life to be: which again was an honourable, noble, way of life, and a practical presencing of the numinous.

There was thus no search for ‘meaning and purpose’ because I foolishly believed I had already found a meaning and a purpose: for thirty years in National-Socialism and then for ten years in Islam.

In 1998 I turned away from National- Socialism to Islam because during a decade (1988-1998) of foreign travels the culture, the Muslims, of the Muslim lands – and especially of Egypt – slowly, almost imperceptibly, impressed me as did, and perhaps more so, travels alone in the Sahara Desert where I wordlessly felt intimations of Being, of The Acausal, of The-Unity, of The One-The Only (τὸ ἓν), of The Monas (μονάς) which ‘acausal’ Being Muslims called Allah and Christians called God.”

As I noted in Myngath,

“In a literal way, Islam taught me humility, something I aspired to during my time as a monk but which my then prideful nature rebelled against.”

In essence, therefore, as I sought to explain in Myngath, I was an opinionated, selfish often fanatical person who from youth and for some thirty years arrogantly believed he could and should “make a difference” and who caused suffering to others but who, mostly against his will, slowly, very slowly seemed to learn from his experiential life in the process acquiring a certain humility and perhaps an understanding of himself leading to the formulation of a weltanschauungen based on empathy and honour.

Therefore trying to control such a myth and Idea is, for me, irrelevant.

Kian Tveitan

The connections to the occult, Julius Evola and hermeticism seeming to be the most influential, along with old Greek and European pagan systems of honour. To put it simply [they] seem to be your main connection to the occult. I do not believe you are Anton Long, Some claim you infiltrated occult groups like the O9A to move them towards National Socialism. But the question I ask is has the Idea of you I keep mentioning that was seemingly created in the late 90s taken over again?

David Myatt

My interest in ancient Greek literature began as a schoolboy in the Far East but waned when I arrived in Blighty in the 1960s and became involved in practical politics, specifically Colin Jordan’s British Movement.

It returned when I was a monk and began learning what was then termed New Testament Greek. Discussions with two other monks led me to begin a scholarly study of the Greek text of the Corpus Hermeticum which I was familiar with from my reading of Jung and the few alchemical texts I could obtain while in prison in 1975 and which intuitively inspired the creation of my Star Game during that holiday at Her Majesty’s Pleasure.

As for honour, what initially inspired me in the late 1960s were the actions of Otto Ernst Remer, a recipient of the Knights Cross with Oak Leaves, in July 1944. Some years later Remer presented me with a photograph of him taken after the battle of Kharkov in 1943.

In 2012, then over three score years old, I finally had leisure enough to begin translating and writing commentaries on the tractates of the Corpus Hermeticum that most interested me.

What others may infer and have inferred from all this, they have and do. As for influence, I can only quote what TS Eliot wrote in Little Gidding:

If you came this way, Taking any route, starting from anywhere, At any time or at any season, It would always be the same: you would have to put off Sense and notion. You are not here to verify, Instruct yourself, or inform curiosity Or carry report. You are here to kneel Where prayer has been valid.

Part 3

Kian Tveitan

Today I had an Ethiopian Muslim Uber driver, we talked about Islam; by the time I arrived at my appointment for the first time since disconnecting myself from Islam in 2020 during my divorce I was at a point where I wanted to run to the nearest Masjid, Prey and revert once more back into being a Muslim.

I bring this up because this made me think of you and this was not only unexpected but an extreme longing to cast all aside and dedicate it all to Islam once more. Has this happened to you since you left Islam?

David Myatt

Yes, several times, in the year I publicly made known my own disconnection from the Muslim way of life. I missed daily Namaz, especially Jummah Namaz and the feeling of belonging and humility it had engendered in me. Suffice to say the Muslim way of life had a profound and positive, and in hindsight morally necessary, effect on me.

But remembrance of the life and especially the deaths of Frances and Sue caused me to continue to seek answers to questions regarding exegesis of certain sacred texts, of the dialectic particular interpretations seemed to imply because they were founded on denotata, and the nature of empathy and honour which I felt had a personal horizon not a supra-personal one codified by a religion or by a particular interpretation of some text.

Kian Tveitan

During your time as a Muslim, many perceive that period as being some kind of O9A Insight role. I happened to believe you where sincere, given your writings, your obvious extensive knowledge of Islam and your assimilation into Muslim communities.

Only a seasoned Foreign Intelligence Officer could do what you have done if you where not sincere. I understand this as I have travelled and lived in Islamic countries and communities overseas and they would have known very quickly if I was not sincere. In fact, it could have gotten me killed in some places.

I want the above to be known as an example of your sincerity and how dangerous your travels less known could be. Reflecting about that period do you regret it?

David Myatt

What others believe or allege about my peregrinations as a Muslim, my rejection of all extremisms, and indeed about involvement with a particular Occult movement, is their belief or their allegation howsoever such a belief or allegation came-into-being and persists within them, and no longer concerns me.

My concern is, and has been for over a decade, seeking to not cause suffering through deeds or words, and finding something expiative for the suffering I caused because of my past extremism and selfishness.

All I have found in respect of expiation in the past decade or so is to develop and make known the weltanschauung derived from what believe I have learned since the death of Frances in 2006; to publicly express my regret regarding my extremist past, and my fallible understanding of such matters as extremism.

What others believe or allege about such a making-known, such a weltanschauung, such an understanding, is what they believe or allege. Thus, in reference to sincerity, as Seneca wrote: De Vita Beata, 7.15.1 by Seneca.

Quia pars honesti non potest esse nisi honestum, nec summum bonum habebit sinceritatem suam, si aliquid in se viderit dissimile meliori.

Which returns me to what I wrote in 2012: “quite simply it is matter of honour. Of personal knowing,” and that since 1975 A Matter of Honour, by David Myatt.

“only four people, on hearing or learning about such rumours and allegations, have had the decency to ask me, in person, ‘for my side of the story’.

The first was Colin Jordan, the second was John Tyndall, the third was Steve Sargent, and the fourth was a Muslim whom I came to greatly admire and to whom I gave a personal pledge of loyalty.”

All those individuals took the trouble to get to know me personally over a period of time, and it was that personal pledge of loyalty to a Muslim living overseas that made my interior struggle about formulating my own weltanschauung longer and more difficult than it might otherwise have been.

Kian Tveitan

Leaving Islam can be dangerous, you and I are both apostates from Islam, of which in most schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence carries the death penalty. As I asked regarding Combat 18 and NS movements possibly taking reprisals, of which you illuminated me on the situation.

I must ask has there been any reprisals attempted towards you by Islamic groups or individuals because of been seen as an apostate?

David Myatt

Not so far. As Sophocles wrote: Antigone, 1337-8, by Sophocles.

“ὡς πεπρωμένης οὐκ ἔστι θνητοῖς συμφορᾶς ἀπαλλαγή.”

“mortals cannot be delivered from the misfortunes of their fate.”

Kian Tveitan

Regarding extremism, for most people who become radical from various movements, most do not move from theory into practice of views western society perceives as extreme.

You however took that extra step, and despite not agreeing on certain things, I do respect that you went all in putting forth your convictions publicly given the risks involved. Knowing the stakes, you where not typical regarding the movements you where involved with.

Regarding acting on beliefs (not necessarily extremism but any counter establishment ideology) do you believe that one must act on there convictions as you did, or is the personal suffering it causes to themselves and others as you reflected on too great to risk?

David Myatt

A relevant question. During my extremist decades I did believe it was necessary to act in practical ways based on one’s often fanatical commitment to some ideology or some supra-personal religious or social Cause and which commitment meant that the goal of some ideology or Cause was considered more important than the suffering caused.

But my experiences, and especially outdoor labour on a farm, gradually over years, brought the realization that this was immoral and that no ideology, no -ism, no Cause, no religion, nothing supra- personal – whatever the rhetoric or written or interior excuse – justified causing suffering and thus perpetuating the cycle of suffering, millennia after millennia.

That what was moral was, could be, known through empathy and honour with their local personal horizon; and could not be, should not be, codified in any supra-personal way such as in a principle such as Jus Ad Bellum.

I attempted to explain all this in my 2013 text Questions of Good, Evil, Honour, and God and later works.

Kian Tveitan

Regarding Reichsfolk and the changing of National Socialist Ideology during the mid-1990s to the 2000s. You and a few other figures quite heretically moved from Neo-Nazi orthodoxy.

Especially changing the perspective regarding Islam. Utilizing a historical precedent of Islamic collusion with the Nazi party before and during the war and the Islamic SS units, the Bosnian SS been an example you used.

How did people within the NS movement react to this, as despite the historical precedent Islam has been a focal point of attack by Neo-Nazi organisations for decades, Combat 18 in Australia focused almost entirely on fighting Islam. What was the reaction?

David Myatt

The reaction of some people, especially in Finland, Sweden, and Germany, was positive while there was a negative reaction in places such as America and Britain.

As for Combat 18 in Britain it had effectively, in terms of street action, ceased to exist mostly due to Charlie’s conviction for murder and Browning’s betrayal by being a witness for the Prosecution at his trial; but partly because so many seemed to dishonourably believe the disinformation, the lies, about Charlie spread by Browning and his supporters, and by anti-fascists such as in a World in Action television programme whose anti-fascist Associate Producer would later be fêted by the British government who awarded him an MBE.

The programme, as some newspaper articles did, spread the disinformation that Charlie was a informer for the Police and for MI5.

Apropos Islam, I went on, during my campaign to bring National-Socialists and Muslims together, to write tracts such as the multi-part The National-Socialist Guide to Understanding Islam. Which again were well- received in some quarters but disliked in others.

Kian Tveitan

Continuing on from Reichsfolk, you and figures like Varg Vikernes during that period of the late 1990s, changed perspectives on Slavic races, Russians and Serbians being a good example as they are hated by orthodox Nazi`s given Hitler`s writings on them in Mein Kampf.

What changed your mind on ethnic Slavs? For bringing Slavs into NS movements has changed things dramatically.

Being from a Serb background and having friends who joined Combat 18 and other NS movements, I was a cause of much argument between Neo-Nazis, this was the late 2000s.

Most where very orthodox but some like yourself had or developed different perspectives. Unlike with Islam there is less of a historical precedent regarding Russians and Serbs, but I know there was some especially during the end of the war. But I wont go into that; my point is, I know things have changed regarding Slavs in some movements, so how or what caused your perspective to change?

David Myatt

Apropos Slavs, the reason was my understanding of National-Socialism as applicable to all ethnicities, not just to Northern Europeans; a matter I wrote about many times including in Esoteric Hitlerism: Idealism, the Third Reich and the Essence of National-Socialism.

Apropos Islam, there were two reasons. The first was my travels in Egypt and the Muslim world between 1988 and 1998 which began my admiration for the Muslim way of life. The second was being introduced to National Socialists such as Leon Degrelle and Otto Ernst Remer.

Remer, for example, lived for a while after the war in Egypt and became adviser to Gamal Abdel Nasser, was acquainted with Yasser Arafat and a comrade of Omar Amin, a Waffen-SS officer living in Egypt who had converted to Islam.

Kian Tveitan

Regarding the occult, I am satisfied with your answer, the old Greek translations, your background regarding Christianity, interest in Hermeticism it all makes sense. To me it seems people involved in the O9A have incorporated your work into their material.

I do not believe you are the person the media and misdirected Niners think you are. As you said Satanism is Decadent, and you are right, I talk about it a lot especially regarding the French late 1800s decedent literary movement with books like Là-Bas by Joris-Karl Huysmans.

It does not fit in with your NS or Islamic work. Am I correct on this perspective?

David Myatt

Indeed. But that will not of course change the opinion of those who for whatever reason and from whatever motive believe otherwise.

I have expressed my views regarding the Occult and alleged involvement with a certain Occult movement many times since the 1990s, including in the tract Occultism and National-Socialism first published in New Zealand in 1997, in my A Reply To Allegations which I quoted from in a previous answer, in a 1998 recorded interview with the aforementioned antifascist fêted by the British government, and in my 2012 A Matter Of Honour.

But, as I have mentioned before in other writings, they and their perception are of this era, and in the perspective of millennia the perception of a person by others often changes or more often perhaps the person will be forgotten, whatever efforts those of this or any era may go to in the belief that their particular perception will last ‘forever’.

Kian Tveitan

To quote you in a difficult question: “The concepts of me as ‘myth’ and Idea are new to me and not something I agree with or am comfortable with.”

I find your reaction to the concept I put forth of you becoming a myth very interesting. But because of the media attention people on many sides have this absolutely bizarre perspective of you.

Many thinking you’re a secret O9A founder who is also Anton Long and doing Insight roles since the 60s. I have met people who believe this and admire you because of this belief. Then the mainstream media perspective is essentially the same, like it or not, but I hope to bring this back to reality with this interview.

Is there any statement you may like to make?

David Myatt

Being now past my three score years and ten I have lost interest in how or why I am now perceived as I am by some people or may be perceived after my death. But, such is the nature of some older folk, to reminisce about one’s past, and to pontificate in general, often is or becomes a minor pleasure.

Yet, as it often is, the final verdict on a person will be centuries from the era in which they lived, if they are remembered at all for whatever reason and, if they are remembered, in the intervening period the verdict may change from century to century.

But this is all dependant on whether and for how long we as a species survive and whether or not in a hundred or a thousand years there are stable communities where knowledge and reason and scholarship are valued and taught to a new generation.

David Myatt March 2023 CE

Image credits: David Myatt Interview by Interzone (alias at the time for Kian Tveitan (kianlayer0) 2023: David Myatt visiting a Catholic Church, 1995.

Part Two: 1998 surveillance photograph of David Myatt with the wife of Combat 18 member Martin Cross. With Combat 18 member Frenchie and C18 co-founder Steve Sargent walking behind.

29/12/2025

David Myatt published this interview in his 2023 book, An Uncertitude of Knowing: Four Interviews with David Myatt. I had no prior knowledge of its inclusion and no financial or connective involvement in the publication. I appreciated the rare opportunity to interview such an elusive, enigmatic, and controversial figure—but this does not imply endorsement or association.

The work behind this interview was extensive and extremely stressful, as I was in academia at the time. I am grateful to figures like David Myatt who trusted my approach enough to participate. My method, which incorporates empathy alongside rigorous analysis, is a deliberate part of my journalistic strategy. I draw on OSINT and HUMINT tradecraft as core elements of my operational praxis.

This empathetic and analytical approach is not exclusive to David Myatt; it enables sources to open up more comfortably. In this case, it has occasionally been misinterpreted as personal linkage—which it is not. I needed to clarify that explicitly.

Thank you to DM, RM, KS, and others for the networking introductions. At the time, few knew who I was, and this was no small offer. My appreciation stemmed from that context. In hindsight, I recognize it could be misconstrued as deeper involvement by some. Readers should remember that I come from a difficult background with limited early opportunities; I felt I had failed to break through as a published journalist overseas during that period.

To be unequivocal: I have never had any involvement with David Myatt beyond conducting this interview and limited correspondence on specific issues. Similarly, my only past connection to extremism was brief teenage involvement with Combat 18 (C18) in Australia during the 2000s—as I openly stated in the interview itself.

I disconnected from those circles while still young and rejected neo-Nazism entirely by age 20. I have been transparent about this history to underscore the authenticity of my work in understanding far-right extremism. Like David Myatt and Richard Moult, I walked away from extremism myself—that is precisely why these figures interest me so deeply.

I sought to determine whether they had genuinely renounced it. Based on my communications and this interview, I believe both sincerely walked away and evolved. To what extent? I do not think they shed every subtle remnant privately attached to Nazism—such traces rarely vanish completely. But if they did, we would not be having these vital conversations.

December of the year of our Lord 2025.

kianlayer0 (Kian Tveitan)

All referenced groups and ideologies are covered solely for research, reporting, and counter-extremism education. I am not affiliated with, nor supportive of, any extremist organization.

For investigative and research purposes in counter-extremism education only.